New and confused

[sue62]

Hi, I have been experiencing a feeling of 'unwell' for about a year now. I have just been to a clinic which applies acupressure to ascertain what you are intollerant to. It came out that I am Dairy intollerant. But am I? I have been reading comments from other members about their symtoms and mine are not anything like that. My main problem is feeling so lethargic and always have sinus problems/sneezing but also have occasionly stomach swelling and my asthma has got worse over the last year. I have had many blood tests and physically I am in perfect health. So maybe it is an intollerance.
If I gave up Dairy, how soon would I know if it is that, do you experience a dramatic change? Also when you are looking for dairy free products is it just milk you look for in the ingredients or does it come in other forms?
I would be grateful for your feedback as I am very confused.
:unsure:

[Pam]

Hi Sue, welcome to the site.

Intolerance symptoms vary greatly and can appear as headaches, sickness, diarrhoea, constipation, hives, eczema, asthma, mucus overproduction, hyperactivity, lethargy etc. The only way to know for sure is to exclude milk from your diet. You should start to feel better within a couple of days but it can take up to 3 weeks to get milk out of your system.

I suffered from hayfever and hives and a lot of cataarh which all cleared up more or less overnight when I stopped having milk. My daughter suffers with stomach cramps if she eats milk so her symptoms clear up about 6 hours after eating milk. Eczema can take a bit longer to clear up.

As for what to avoid - milk, cream, yoghurt, ice cream, butter are all fairly obvious but if you look at milk derivatives eg lactose, whey, and casein things get more difficult. I think there is a list on the site of all the milk derivatives that you need to avoid, try looking at the options on the home page and you should find it somewhere.

It all seems very daunting at first but it is well worth the sacrifices and you really do get used to all the strange flavours and label reading so that it becomes second nature. There are dairy free options for most foods, so if you are looking for something just ask on here, someone is bound to know.

Start off by buying some alternative milk - soya, rice, oat etc and some dairy free margarine (Pure is available in most supermarkets). If you want to get yourself some treats to get you through the first few days you can have dark chocolate (not milk chocolate) or a dairy free chocolate bar, Swedish Glace ice cream which is better than the real thing, Alpro make some nice Yofu (yoghurts) and also some custard style desserts. Tesco and Sainsbury's both have fairly good free from sections which are worth a visit when you're new and not used to tracking down dairy free products.

Good luck, I hope you notice a difference and come back to let us know how you go on with your new diet. Come back and ask lots of questions too, you'd be surprised how many good things are out there if you know where to look.

[matt]

i think pam covered most of the main stuff. s she said you should see improvement over a few weeks. what you then need to do is strictly keep to the diet for a couple of months. hopefully you'll feel better if you don't then it's probably not milk, but whta you need to do is get someone at two months or so to give you something without you knowing that includes milk. then if you get the symptoms back you can safely say you are intolerant. i say without you knowing as you can make yourself have a reaction even when you don't have. does that make sense?

it seems daunting but it gets much easier once you get into the habit. most wuestions can be answered by someone on the site so don't suffer in silence.

[Bet]

As Matt said I think Pam has covered everything - I would just say my child specifically had bad sinus problems until she went dairy free - we went to a Cranial Osteopath who first suggested putting her on a milk free diet - after the initial head massage she did, my daughters nose streamed for 6 weeks continually - it was amazing how bad her sinuses were with the intolerance. She also had a very bloated tummy which was like that continuously - this took longer to go, but as soon as she has anything with milk in now, her tummy swells up again.

Good luck!

[sue62]

:) Thank you so much for all your help. It was very daunting at first, but to know others are there to help and advice is a relief.
I am going to start my milk free diet today, which is going to be hard because I do so love an ice cold strawberry milkshake. I bought a carton of soya milk today and it certainly is an aquired taste. Oh well here goes.
thank you again.

[Pam]

Provamel do some strawberry milk shakes, they come in packs of 3x200ml cartons, you should be able to find them in your local health food shop or Holland and Barrett. Or you could use soya milk and add some crusha or 'For Milk' flavouring. Yes it is an acquired taste as it is UHT and tends to stick to your mouth a bit but you do get used to it. You can also buy 'fresh' flavoured soya milk from the chiller units in some supermarkets, again made by Alpro (Provamel) but I've only ever seen chocolate flavour. I haven't noticed any flavour difference between fresh plain soya milk and long life cartons, but the price is higher and it has to be used quicker.

You'll probably spend more money buying things to try until you get used to being dairy free, then you'll find that with a few exceptions you can buy things off the normal shelf. You can adapt most recipes to use substitute milk and butter, so you will probably find yourself doing more baking and cooking as time goes on.

Keep coming back to let us know how you are.

[sue62]

Well I have been to Sainsbury's today and stocked up. I have bought Soya and rice milk (see which one I like best) plus soya yogurts, which I must say are rather nice. The Freefrom range mainly cater for gluten and wheat free but I did find a fruit cake that was also dairy free and it is gorgeous.
So here goes - my dairy free diet. I will keep you all informed.

[sue62]

Well it has been a week now and I cannot believe how great I feel. For about 4 days I felt really rotten and so tired and then I woke up Tuesday morning feeling so well. I haven't felt like this for so long. I have more energy, more alert and my asthma has gone from using my inhaler up to 4 times a day and 2 times through the night to just twice in the last 3 days/night. Still blowing my nose but no where near what I was and certainly don't feel so bunged up in the morning.
I just can't believe that dairy made me feel so unwell for so long.
Can anyone tell me how long I should keep off the dairy before introducing it back to see if I can tollerate any sort of dairy product.
:)

[matt]

don't know what everyone else thinks but i would say about 6 weeks or so at most. then you have to re introduce carefully to see what reaction you get to either the protein element or lactose. important to do each seperately as if it's lactose then you may be able to cure the problem using lactolite, or the tablets that allow you to take lactose. there's also the suggestion that a course of biotics can sort that problem out. i don't think there's much you can do if it's the protein? maybe someone else does know.

but that's why you need to know which it is. great news that you feel much better. enjoy the release for now, don't be in too much of a rush to re introduce. you don't have to eat dairy produce.

[ellsie]

I am fine with lactose and my trouble is with milk protein. It will depend on whether you are intollerent or allergic too as you may have a reoccurance of your current symptoms when you try again or you may tollerate them better or you may be like me. I am told by experts that my it is rare for someone to become allergic to milk as an adult but this happened to me. When I tried to reintroduce milk after 6 months without ,I started to go into anaphalactic shock as my body would not accept it. This is because I had an allergy to milk and I am allergic to the protein. I am told that with an allergy it is usually the protein that causes the problem. Most other people onthe site seem to have an intollerance usually caused by the lactose so try lactose first. If you are worrid that you may develop an allergy then speak to your doc about your experience and try and get an allergy test, especially if you can cope with lactose(milk sugar). On food labels I avoid whey and casein (milk protein).

;)

[Bet]

I was interested in reading Ellsies reply re lactose / milk protein intolerance. My 4 yr old is milk and soya protein intolerant, not sure if is intolerant of lactose or not.

Does anyone know if there are any milk products she may still be able to have if she isnt lactsoe intolerant?

[ellsie]

So if she is protein intollerent- is that what you mean? Some crisps have lactose , some medicines like Piriton, some mayonnaisse so but not all -usually the light ones for some reason- so with mayo is coleslaw and similar type salads. Mayo is one of my staples as is tomato based pasta sauce and chinese food as the chinese do not cook with milk but check with individual restaurants first. However if you buy chinese type food in supermarkets then they can add milk sometimes. You just have to read labels. Also look out for "new recipe" labels as they can change a food that you have used b4 and put milk in it.

I can also eat doughnuts which are normally made with milk and battered fish but why? I can only guess that it has to do with the cooking process changing the protein in some way.
Lactose is also used in processed chicken to improve taste, and lots ofother processed foods which I don't eat and can't help you on. Just read the labels! I can't have any yoghurt or cheese or other milk product as all contain the protein. Perhaps others can suggest something. Orange juice goes well with christmas pudding though and I have met a family who always had:jawdrop: creme de menthe liquer on their pud! I still haven't tried that yet!

[matt]

i would love to be able to give a definative answer but here's how i understand it:

if you have aproblem with the protein then you're basically allergic and should avoid it tottally.
if it's lactose then it's an intolerance. with that everyone is different, some will be able to take small amounts some larger. some will be able to eat cheese, some yoghurt and so on.
with the lactose it can be only a problem when it's combined with certain other food stuff. i think it depends almost on if your body notices!

batter on fish not always includes milk same with donuts. could be that it contains protein only not lactose. then it might not affect people who are intolerant.

does all that make sense? perversly if you are intolerant not allergic you can get away with live yoghurt as the bacteria in it digest the lactose and you probably will not get a reaction as the intolerance is only because you can't digest lactose.

clear as mud i know

[Pam]

There doesn't seem to be a definitive answer when you ask the question "what is the difference between intolerance/allergy/sensitive?". I believe that I am sensitive to milk - it brings me out in hives, allows hay fever to become active, causes sinus problems but doesn't cause any life threatening reactions and I rarely need treatment, just feel a bit grotty (but does the hives mean an allergy?). My daughter suffers from extreme bouts of stomach cramp exactly 3 1/2 hours after consuming milk in any shape or form and in the minutest quantities, followed by a disturbed, uncomfortable night and constipation rather than diarrhoea - a very specific reaction, but not really an allergic type reaction, so I don't know what category she falls into. Lactose intolerance as known by medical professionals is usually an inability of the gut to deal with lactose (due to insufficient lactase?) so the body just allows lactose products to pass straight through either by diarrhoea or vomitting. This can be a temporary thing caused by a sickness bug upsetting the digestive system and causing inflamation of the gut and this can be a short term intolerance if a period of abstenance is followed by gentle reintroduction. So, what about those people unable to consume milk in the long-term - is that still an intolerance? I don't think anyone really knows!

[ellsie]

I would say hives are an allergic reaction. At the start of anaph. shock it is one of the things that happen. Also nasal passages and ear passages swelling and asthma type chest tightening etc ,but people react in different degrees to things that cause a reaction. Have you defined which part of milk causes problems for you Pam or is it both?

[Pam]

I haven't really looked into it, I just mostly avoid milk but know that I will start itching if I have some.

[flopsy25]

im new to this to. i was dairy free a while back for my ibs. i got better now my asthma has got worse and im on a dairy free trial until dec 1st for my next check up. and it been 4 days now and feeling pretty good. ive lost 2lb in the 4 days as well so it must be going good. been to mcdonalds read there allergy sheet and chose the dairy free alternatives so still happy.

but the chocolate is not as good as a good bar of dairy milk but alas.

[loubylou27]

Welcome Flopsy.
I believe being dairy free can be helpful with asthma I hope it helps.
No the chocolate marketed as dairy free isn't great, but I can heartily recommend Green and Blacks dark chocolate it is an aquired taste, but I love it. Also I am hooked on haribo gummies! (which you can have) and the most delicious dairy free fudge from the fudge kitchen (branches in Bath, York..errrrrr and online) and it is expensive, but fantstic! and it's creamy.mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I can't think what else I like, b ut you will find good subsitutes.
I hope to be more help in the future!!
Take care
Lucy
x

[matt]

you can't just leave it as err online!

you've found dairy free fudge.....what's the website address? hoe much price are we talking? please tell me there's no wheat in it? i love fudge but had given up on the idea as all i've seen is made from butter.

cheers:drool:

[matt]

nevermind here it is for everyone:

http://www.fudge-kitchen.co.uk/shop_fudge.asp?id=26

enjoy:drool: :drool: :drool:

[Pam]

You can get fudge and other dairy free chocs etc at www.veganstore.co.uk
They have quite a good range of goodies. I can recommend Booja Booja truffles, which, though they are expensive are absolutely delicious (Matt, if I remember rightly they are gluten and wheat free too, but unfortunately will be high in caffein due to the dark chocolate content.)

[zoefruitcake]

The lure of dairy free fudge was just too much for me :drool: and after taking out a second mortgage I have ordered a box.

I shall let you know what the verdict is...
:naughty:

[matt]

and then we'll need to call you zoe fruitfudgecake! now there's an idea, how to combine a fruit cake with fudge.......

oh, by the way tesco's now has free from xmas cake and mince pies on the shelves......


can't wait to hear the verdict on the fudge. i'm going to hold off just a little longer, might treat myself for xmas.

[zoefruitcake]

Hello, it's Zoefruitfudgecake here ;)

Well, the fudge arrived yesterday, all wrapped up in a big box. I was a bit alarmed at the wording on the side of the box assuring me that all their fudge contained cream, and was worried for a second, but the actual slices were wrapped and marked "diary free" yes, that wasn't "dairy free" but no added yearly planner.

The fudge itself: it is creamy with a firm outer shell of crumbly fudgey goodness. It is very rich and a little sickly - just the way fudge should be. I'm afraid that I piggishly ate 2 slices :drool: and then froze 2 slices according to the instructions on the box.

Personally I thought it was very nice, and very authentic BUT bear in mind that I've not eaten fudge for years and I am easily pleased :D
It is very expensive, but it is nice, and there was a post-paid postcard inside asking for feedback and promising a £2.50 voucher off future orders for just filling it out.

[Pam]

I hope it was very nice for that price. £15.50 for 4 slices of fudge!!!!! I'm speechless.

I wonder if we can find a recipe for dairy free fudge to make ourselves?

[loubylou27]

YEs but Pam... honstly it is FABULOUS!!! and all the other fudge is the same price, the D/F isn't more £ so I think that's ok! and it isn't easy to eat 2 slices all at once!! (hats off to Zoe) DId you get it Zoe after I mentioned it or did you find it through the Vegan links?

mmmm Might have to get a slice out the freezer....

Lucy
xx

[loubylou27]

Oh I'm soooooo sorry Matt.. I am still getting used to the format of this site after coming here more than another site I used to frequent!! (Sorry I come here lots now!!) and I loose track of my last posts!! Sorry sorry sorry!!

And th fudge is fab!!!

[matt]

no need to apoligise to me. just let us know where you live and we'll all come round to try little bits of that frozen fudge.

i have to say that it would need to be better than (insert your own word) to justify spending that much on it. i feel a little experiment coming on to try to make a dairy free home made version. must be posible with pure or plain veg fat ,alpro cream and so on. i shall have a think and try then let people know. don't expect results too soon. palnning a trip to kew on tuesday so will be a little busy.

enjoy the fudge, at that price i hope you cut it into very small pieces before freezing?

[loubylou27]

Well I am pregnant, is that enough of an excuse?? lol.

I agree there must be a fudge recipe somwhere.
I have googled for some recipes and found ones like this http://www.cdkitchen.com/recipes/recs/35/Cant_Fail_5Minute_Fudge60326.shtml

So maybe replacing the evaporated milk with soya.... is anyone scientifc, will there ba a need for dairy protein in fudge??

Might need to do some experimenting!! watch this (or I might start another) space!!

[Pam]

It's the evaporated/condensed milk that is hard to substitute, maybe some Soya Dream or Soya Creem might work or could you evaporate your own soya milk by simmering for a long time?

I make a chocolate fudge type icing for cakes by adding soya milk and icing sugar to melted chocolate so I suppose that is a possibility, it would be really sickly on its own though. Where's Simon the chef gone? He mentioned dairy free food and then disappeared, I wish he'd come back and give us some recipes.

[Pam]

I've found a recipe for chocolate fudge which looks easy enough to make and could be adapted to suit our needs:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/database/chocolatefudge_1562.shtml

or this one for plain fudge (but needs a lot of boiling and a sugar thermometer):
http://www.veganfamily.co.uk/fudge.htm

I suppose we could play about by adding different ingredients eg fruit, alcohol, flavourings etc. So who's going to be first to try it then?

[Copper]

I nominate Matt as he loves cooking :)

[jill]

I've been searching thru' my recipe books and am all set to have a go tomorrow morning (Sunday). Will post afterwards to tell you the results. Am only intending on making a small quantity though as I'm trying to be good between now & Christmas :lol2:

[loubylou27]

My dairy free icing is coco powder, icing sugar and water. it is very nice, but very sickly, it would set as a fudge though!

[matt]

i haven't got the time to do it for a couple of days but i've got a recipe in the farmhouse kitchen book!! how old is that book. it involves evaporated milk and boiling until soft ball stage. i recon if i use apro dream it should work. when i emailed the fudge kitchen just to make sure about wheat they said they use soya milk so we'd be on the right lines. if you simmer off the soya milk until it gets thicker then that would work aswell i think. we'll see. the results will be edible whatever happens, just might not set as hard.

my normal icing is pure spread, icing sugar and then either vanilla or cocoa powder. basically butter icing with pure. doesn't set but who cares.

[jill]

Well I've had a go at making some fudge this morning. The recipe was from a really old book that my dad bought my mum before they married. They married in 1959. The book contained lots of different fudge recipes but I chose this one as it was the first one, and it had the least ingredients. Also because I am supposed to be following weight watchers it would also have the least points.

I used
1/4pt Sweetened Soya Milk
8oz Caster Sugar
3/4 oz Pure Soya Spread

These were all melted together in a pan and boiled until it formed balls when dropped in cold water.

I then added a few drops of vanilla essence. Mixed it well then poured it into bun cases.

The result is more like a hardish sugar mice consistency, which reminded me alot of Thorntons Dairy butter tablet. It is very sweet.

I wouldn't recommend pouring it into individual cases as by time I got to the last one it had begun to set.

I also got a few burnt bits in it as I went to get another cup of cold water at the ball stage and it began to stick to the pan. I was using non stick though so it was no problem getting it clean afterwards.

I wouldn't try this recipe again - it is edible, but not soft enough for me, I also am finding it rather sweet and have already cleaned my teeth four times this morning.

The morning hasn't been waisted though, the Victoria Sponge Cake I've made has turned out well

[zoefruitcake]

I went out for the day on Saturday and ended up in Arundel. We went into a fudge shop there and they had 4 types of dairy free at a mere £1.10 for 100g! I had some ginger, which was nice enough, but really it wasn't a patch on the expensive stuff (which I'm afraid got fished out of the freezer and eaten on Sunday :drool: )
My friend also bought me a bar of the Kinnerton free from absolutely everything. Thankfully it wasn't free from taste and we ate the lot between us. Sigh
:)

[matt]

so if you're going to get stuff in for xmas you're going to have to lock it in a safe then give the key to someone to look after.

that fudge might not be the same but the price...does it really justify that much? it would need to be damn good.

[zoefruitcake]

The fudge is good, but at that price is is really only going to be a special event/christmad/birthday type thing, isn't it?
I like fudge, but I'd choose chocolate or, lets face it, fruitcake over it any day. I may try and make my own dairy-free fudge next tiem I'm in need of a fudgey fix ;)

[Ali]

Hi, I have only just registered and I have been looking over the site but I am not sure I am using the site properly and could use some advice. I have now gone dairy and egg free after a blood test showed an allergy to these foods. I use to get 4 migraines and week plus digestive and sinus problems. After not eating dairy and egg for six months not only was I migraine free but I was off all medication. I miss chocolate and cheese!

[Copper]

Welcome Ali. Yes we all miss chocolate and cheese :( this is why there are a number of posts about them - we are all still trying to find tasty substitutes. There is not a hard cheese substitute that tastes like cheese in my opinion.

Chocolate - now we can eat some of that but it has to be in the Free from range in Tesco or Sainsbury or there are some plain chocolates we can eat. Peppermint creams are usually worth checking out as most of them are dairy free. You just have to spend ages reading the ingredients list. I am badly lactose intolerant and can eat Tesco own after dinner mints and Tesco own organic palin chocolate - they are both yummy :bleh: and I have to ration myself.

I am sure somebody else will come up with other ideas.

[ellsie]

And so say all of us! Especially cheese. There are soya cheeses in the health food shops but it is a question of trial and error for what suits you. Choc well I have polished off half a box of after 8's tonight and my other fave at the mo is co-op jaffa cakes so don't despair. Stay tuned and others will suggest more options I am sure.

Welcome to the site and get ready to read lots of labels!:naughty:

[matt]

welcome to you, ask away any questions and you'll get replies i'm sure. don't be afraid to open new threads if you want to know something specific.

[Lan]

Hi Ali,

For chocolate I would recommend Sainsbury's free from plain chocolate and nutty chocolate. Tescos also do the same, but find Sainsbury's nicer.

For cheese I would recommend Parmasano and Cheezly. Let me admit now that I will certainly be unpopular. I love these cheeses but others seem to find them terrible.

Please ask other members as they will be able to advise of other cheeses and chocolates they like.

Kind Regards and Good Luck,


Lan. :D

[Pam]

I'm going to contradict Lan straightaway.

Chocolate - I prefer Tescos (I think it is made by the same people as the Sainsburys one but is 10p cheaper)

Cheese - Cheezly is Yuck! I prefer Tofutti slices for topping pizza or lasagne (they don't taste brilliant but they do melt) and Tofutti soft cheese is nice on crackers or jacket potatoes (like philadelphia).

I tried some Mozarella melting Cheezly last week and it was far too salty and didn't melt properly so thumbs down from me. I don't like the cheddar version either, the smell is disgusting. I've also tried Scheese (very like Cheezly), Veggie Kaas (greasy and doesn't melt), Biddy Merkins Vegerella (greasy but like an austrian processed cheese in texture and flavour) so I've come to the conclusion that none of them are worth having. I just keep Tofutti slices in the fridge as they are useful to stop a pizza drying out on top.

[Ali]

Thanks for the info on chocolate - I will have to experiment. I have tried the tofu that is like cream cheese and enjoyed it but I have not tried the slices for pizza, I will have to look for that. How does everyone get on with takeaways or is it a case of experimenting and see if you react?

[matt]

the easiest way with takeaways is to go to the takeaway when they're not busy and explain the situation. they can then let you know what they do which is dairyfree or they might offer to make a special meal for you without using dairy. until you ask you'll never know.

can't say i'd just try it and find out if get reaction. you'd never know whether you were reacting to the unknown dairy element or something else.

[Trina]

Hi Sue, there is a site called pure if you go on it, it has all kinds of recipes it's good, there is also a butter called pure it's ok also try the alpro soya choc yogurts they are very nice. I have just cut out all my dairy two weeks ago and feel great no sneezing or sickness nothing all gone. Cheers look at the site PURE. Well I have been to Sainsbury's today and stocked up. I have bought Soya and rice milk (see which one I like best) plus soya yogurts, which I must say are rather nice. The Freefrom range mainly cater for gluten and wheat free but I did find a fruit cake that was also dairy free and it is gorgeous.
So here goes - my dairy free diet. I will keep you all informed.

[Trina]

Hi all i am new to this site i have just cut out all dairy everything two weeks ago as i found out through a diary that i am dairy intolerant and have oral allergy syndrome. I new something was wrong a long time ago was told i had IBS but soon realised that certain foods were to blame but would still eat a little bit of what was causing it Ha ha, well i started using a diary advised by the doctor and i knew what it was as i was suffering badly with cramps vomiting the usual!!! anyway i had had enough and cut the lot out two weeks ago WOW what a difference i feel like a new women no headaches, no pain all gone no sinuses all gone amazing, i will never eat anything with dairy in my diet again "freedom" my husband and grown up kids are amazed at the change. I drink soyo milk and have been doing my homework, there is alot of sites out there that do dairy free, got loads of recipes now. I have watched what i have eaten for years and still had the problem now i know for sure what it is and the transformation is amazing. There is a site thats called PURE it has all recipes on there if anyone would like to know. Cheers

[Trina]

Hi i have found a site it's got a good recipe for choc fudge www.puredairyfree.co.uk (http://www.puredairyfree.co.uk) Try it.:)I've found a recipe for chocolate fudge which looks easy enough to make and could be adapted to suit our needs:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/database/chocolatefudge_1562.shtml

or this one for plain fudge (but needs a lot of boiling and a sugar thermometer):
http://www.veganfamily.co.uk/fudge.htm

I suppose we could play about by adding different ingredients eg fruit, alcohol, flavourings etc. So who's going to be first to try it then?